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The 'new conflict' in Iraq, UK Prime Minister Tony Blair,
September 19, 2004
'PM meets Iraqi Prime Minister', Tony Blair speeches on Iraq,
Downing Street, September 19, 2004.
The Prime Minister has told journalists that the Iraqi
government is building a country of equality and respect for human
rights.
Speaking after talks with the Iraqi Prime Minister, Mr Blair
said that there is only one side to be on in the "new conflict" in
Iraq.
"What I am trying to say to people in the western world
is, whatever you thought about getting rid of Saddam, there is only
one side to be on, and that is the side of democracy and
liberty."
Read a transcipt of the press conference with Tony Blair and the
Iraqi Prime Minister below:
PRIME MINISTER:
First of all can I give a very warm welcome to Prime Minister
Allawi here in Downing Street this morning. Can I say what an
honour it is to have him here, and how much I admire his courage
and his determination in what are obviously very difficult
circumstances, but ones in which he is showing a tremendous
capacity for leadership.
Let me just say a couple of things, before I ask the Prime
Minister to say a few words. The first is I know that some of you
will want to ask us about the hostage situation in Iraq at the
moment, and in particular about the British hostage. We have
obviously discussed this, our governments are working closely on
it, but I don't think, if you will allow me, there is anything more
I can or should say at this stage. So if you don't mind I will just
make that clear at the very beginning.
The second thing I wanted to say is this. I know that the
conflict in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein was a deeply divisive
issue here, and there are all sorts of questions, perfectly
legitimate questions, still asked about the information that we
had, about issues to do with weapons of mass destruction and so on,
and I don't misunderstand the difficulties, even the anger in
certain quarters about that, but I do say to people that in this
new Iraqi conflict, whatever the disagreements about the removal of
Saddam, there is only side for sensible and decent people to be on
in this conflict. The Iraq that Prime Minister Allawi and his
colleagues are trying to create is one that is stable and
democratic, one that respects human rights, that has equality
between men and women, that has equality between different ethnic
groupings, and that is an Iraq we should want to see. And the
people that are trying to stop that Iraq coming about, who are
engaged in kidnapping, and killing, and murder and acts of
terrorism, are people that are opposed, not just to the new Iraq
that could take shape, but are opposed to every single one of the
values that we in countries like this hold dear. So whatever the
disagreements about the first conflict in Iraq to remove Saddam, in
this conflict now taking place in Iraq this is the crucible in
which the future of this global terrorism will be determined, and
either it will succeed and this terrorism will grow, or we will
succeed, the Iraqi people will succeed, and this global terrorism
will be delivered a huge defeat. And the terrorists that are
conducting these killings in Iraq, they know what is at stake, and
we should know what is at stake too, and now is not the time for
the international community to divide or disagree, but to come
together behind what is happening in Iraq, and realise that the
struggle of this Prime Minister and the Iraqi people for liberty,
and democracy and stability, is actually our struggle too, which is
why we will see it through until it is finished, until it finishes
in the victory, not of America or Britain or the west, but the
victory of the Iraqi people.
Just one final thing to say on that is obviously we discussed a
whole range of different issues in respect of Iraq. We will carry
on those discussions with the Iraqi Ministers who I welcome here
too, over lunch, and that will obviously cover not merely security,
but issues to do with reconstruction and the politics of the region
as well. But once again Prime Minister, welcome here, welcome to
your colleagues and thank you for the stand that you are taking in
circumstances of tremendous difficulty, but showing great courage
in doing so.
QUESTION:
... And Mr Blair, how are you going to support the democratic
regime and the election in Iraq in time?
MR ALLAWI:
We will be meeting the Iraqi expatriates here on my way back from
the States, after New York. We definitely are going to stick to the
timetable of the elections in January of next year. We are doing
our best to ensure that we meet the time of the elections. We are
adamant that democracy is going to prevail, it is going to win in
Iraq, and this is where terrorists are trying to hurt us and to
undermine us. We are going to stick to this time and I call upon
the United Nations to help us in providing whatever it takes to
make the election a success in Iraq.
PRIME MINISTER:
I think it is extremely important to understand that the elections
are not just important in themselves, but they are also the visible
demonstration of the different type of Iraq that is being created.
And you can see what is happening in Afghanistan at the moment,
where 10.5 million people have now registered to vote, over 40% of
them women. Some of these people are subject to assassination on
their way simply to register to vote, but nonetheless they are
determined to do so. And of course as the elections take place, so
people understand the difference between democrats who want to
elect their government, and terrorists who want to rule by the bomb
and the bullet.
QUESTION:
A lot of people watching, Prime Minister, would not have
recognised that in effect we are still at war, or we are at war in
Iraq. General Sir Mike Jackson used the word war, you have just
used the word second conflict. Given what you said about this being
the crucible in the world fight against terrorism, how far are you
prepared to go, what are you prepared to do, what should Britain be
prepared to do to help Mr Allawi and his government win that
war?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are doing everything we can do to help. There are
obviously British soldiers who are doing a fantastic job down in
the south of the country, we are also helping with reconstruction
and we are helping build the capability of the Iraqi people and
their security forces in order to govern themselves. And the reason
I put it I the way that I did is that as I say, I know there are a
lot of disagreements over the first Iraq conflict, whether it was
right to remove Saddam or not, and we can go back over all those
issues, of course we can, but today it is absolutely clear what is
happening.
QUESTION:
But aren't we losing that war?
PRIME MINISTER:
No, I don't believe we are, but what we have is a situation where
if you like the terrorists and former regime elements, and anyone
else who wants to destabilise Iraq, they have a very clear strategy
- their aim is to kill anybody who helps the country. Now we have
got to have the same determination and clarity of strategy. The
Iraqi people have it, and the government has it, and what is
important is for the international community to realise this is the
battleground for this type of terrorism. If we succeed in
Afghanistan and in Iraq in establishing stability, how do these
terrorists go out and say, as they do at the moment, you should be
recruited to our cause of terrorism because the Americans, or the
British, or the Western world wants to suppress nations in the
Middle East. The fact is we want to liberate those countries and
enable them to govern themselves. And therefore if we succeed in
Iraq, that is a huge blow to this form of terrorism. If we don't
succeed then of course it is very serious. Now that is why it is
important that we get behind the ..
QUESTION:
Inaudible.
PRIME MINISTER:
Well we are fighting, and we will succeed, because we are going to
stick there and get the job done, because our determination and our
belief in our values is greater than that of those terrorists and
we are going to win. And this man here is somebody who is actually
every single day braving the possibility of an assassination
threat, or death, himself, as his colleagues are doing, because he
believes in a different future for his country. And what I am
trying to say to people in the western world is, whatever you
thought about getting rid of Saddam, leave that to one side for a
moment, people are going to have their different views on that, but
today there is only one side to be on, and that is the side of
democracy and liberty.
MR ALLAWI:
Let me assure you that we are succeeding in Iraq, and we are
succeeding against the forces of evil. You know what is happening
in Iraq, and I am really dismayed by the media, they are not
looking at the bright side and what is being achieved. There have
been a lot of very good things happening in Iraq on various fronts
- security, the economy, democracy, the political process. It is
moving. I was in Basra recently, in Basra where the British forces,
part of the multinational forces are manning. I attended an
election for the Municipality of Basra, and more than 60%
participated in the election in this very important remote area. A
lot of good things are happening in Iraq. The outcome is going to
be a success for us, and you. We in Iraq are fighting a global war
against terrorists who are trying to wreak havoc on the world, to
destabilise Iraq, to destabilise the region and to destabilise
peace in the world, and this is a fight that people are not going
to watch, people have to be part of this war and the winning is for
the forces of good. We will prevail and it is the only outcome.
QUESTION:
My question to Prime Minister, that you have been engaged for some
time with negotiation behind the scene with some of the influential
tribes in what is called the Sunni triangle. What success has been
made until now to convince these leaders in the area to take a step
forward and try to help the government in its achievement? And
Prime Minister Blair, are you trying to push the neighbouring
countries in trying to help the central government in Iraq to take
more practical actions to look after the borders with the
country.
MR ALLAWI:
Well we are you know part of the political process in Iraq really
is to build a consensus amongst the various constituencies of Iraq,
to move on the road of democracy, freedom, respect of human rights
and equality, and this is taking us to talking to the Sunnis, the
Shias, the Kurds, and we are making a lot of progress, regardless
of what some media are talking about. We have done in the recent
past very successful dialogue with people in Samara (phon), and we
have built really a good healthy programme of reconciliation in
Samara, which is part of the so-called Sunni triangle. We are doing
likewise, I have met with some on the fringes of the so-called
resistance, we don't call them resistance, they are either
terrorists or insurgents who belong to the old regime who have been
engaged in killing a lot of Iraqis in the past. We have found so
far 262 mass graves in Iraq. However, our reconciliation programme,
which lies in the heart of democracy and ... is moving ahead.
Unfortunately we do not see a lot of reporting in the media on such
issues, but we see whatever is negative is being reported in the
media, in the ... media or Arab media. This is not correct. Again I
would reiterate and re-emphasise that a lot of positive things are
happening in Iraq. We are moving forward, we are dedicated to
moving forward. The national conference just ended last month,
which was a huge success, it is a cornerstone towards moving into a
fully fledged democracy inshallah in January next. So the movement
is maintained forward. We definitely are facing a lot of problems
security-wise, insurgents, foreign terrorists, but this is because
those people are facing and will face defeat if the Iraqis want to
succeed, and we are going to succeed.
QUESTION:
Prime Minister Allawi, knowing the difficulties that you have,
could you at least tell viewers in Britain whether the Iraqi
government believes it knows where the hostages are, who is holding
them and what they are demanding? And secondly, you have talked in
the past of the need for Martial Law, I wonder if you now believe
it is time? And to Prime Minister Blair, you are saying move on
from the war that removed Saddam. Today opposition politicians are
making the link, and they are crudely, you may think harshly,
saying in effect, he told you things before the war that turned out
not to be right, how can we know now that he isn't doing the same
with these very optimistic predictions that Iraq will come
right?
PRIME MINISTER:
Well first of all I am not saying to people you know move on,
don't debate the wisdom of removing Saddam or not. I happen to
think we are better with Saddam in prison than in power. That is my
view. But I know there are a whole lot of perfectly legitimate
issues and reasons why people feel angry about the original
decision and the information, and we have been through that. So I
am not saying don't debate it, or trying to say put that to the
side, I don't want to talk about it, I am simply trying to say to
people it is very clear, I don't think anybody disputes what is
happening in Iraq now. We have a process, blessed by the United
Nations, to get Iraq towards democracy and elections coming up in
January. There is no doubt at all the former regime elements and
the outside terrorists are trying to stop that happening and are
killing people in a completely indiscriminate manner who try to
help the country get better. So I am simply saying in that struggle
there is only one side to be on, and it is not that I am making
very optimistic or wildly optimistic noises about it all, there is
a real fight going on, there is no doubt about that. My purpose is
simply to say to people, the terrorists and others stopping, or
trying to stop democracy in Iraq, they know what they are doing and
why they are doing it, because they know that if we succeed and
Iraq becomes a stable democracy, that is a huge defeat for them. So
I am simply saying to people whatever your views about the wisdom
of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, in this struggle there is only
one side to be on.
MR ALLAWI:
We are trying our best, working on the issue of hostages, and
hopefully we will achieve some good results, but we don't know yet,
this is an ongoing problem. The Martial Law, yes that do exist now
in Iraq but we haven't used it yet, and I don't think that we need
to use it for now. There are a lot of areas which are improving in
Iraq. But let me come again to the issue of Saddam and debating
whether the war is right or wrong. This is water under the bridge
really, we are looking now into the future and we are looking to a
conflict which is a global conflict. Iraq is the theatre of this
conflict. The world and the civilised world should unite to face
terrorism in Iraq and to win over terrorism, and this is I think
the question that all of us should answer. To talk about history is
something finished, we need to look to the future and how we defeat
the people who are committed against the values of democracy,
freedom, human rights and reconciliation, people who are trying to
destroy civilisation in the region, in Iraq and in the world.
QUESTION:
(Interpretation inaudible)
MR ALLAWI:
The United Kingdom have been very supportive to Iraq and is being
very supportive now in the fields of our political process and the
developing of our security, our infrastructure, the reconstruction.
We are of course fighting shoulder to shoulder against terrorism
and terrorists. In Iraq we have had very successful, very positive
discussions and I think the support is there and will continue to
be with us for sometime.
QUESTION:
A question for both of you, if I may. Mr Allawi, you said you call
on the United Nations to provide whatever it takes to ensure the
elections go ahead in January, you have spoken of your
determination. Does whatever it takes include more coalition troops
to tackle the chaos, the carnage we have seen in the past week or
so? Have you asked Mr Blair for more troops today? And if you have
made such a request, Mr Blair, what is your response to such calls
for more British and coalition troops to be sent to Iraq?
PRIME MINISTER:
I don't actually think there are calls for that. And as I keep
saying to people, we always keep our troop levels under review. But
one day I read in the papers that we are about to send more troops,
and the next day that we are about to cut the numbers. I can just
assure you that we keep it under constant review, and no we are not
being asked for more troops at the present time. I actually think
that is not either where either of us want to go on the security
question. The real issue is how you build the capability of the
Iraqi security forces, the Iraqi Army, the Iraqi police,
anti-terrorist capability, intelligence capability and so on. And I
think one of the things that is most difficult to understand is
just what the Prime Minister and his colleagues inherited, and I
don't mean simply inherited from the Provisional Authority, I mean
this is a situation in which under the previous regime of Saddam
Hussein, very large numbers of people were unemployed, 60% of the
population was dependent on food aid, there was virtually no
institutional capability of any sort to do anything at all other
than around a very small group of people around Saddam, and of
course the Armed Forces and security forces were often working in
ways that we would regard as appalling. So they have had to try and
build this capability, and what I think they really want from us as
much as anything else, obviously our forces stay in order to get
the job of helping this process done, but I think what they really
want, and the Prime Minister will answer you himself, is to build
their own capability, and that in a sense is where the requests for
help most come now.
MR ALLAWI:
The United Nations you know have a lot of agencies that should be
involved in Iraq in helping the economy, the political process
moving ahead. Unfortunately only recently we have received the
Envoy of the Secretary General of the United Nations, we would like
to see a greater involvement by the United Nations and the agencies
of the United Nations. On the issue of help and asking for extra
forces, we think that it is important to develop our own forces,
and this is where we believe both the United Kingdom, the United
States and other friendly nations have been involved in helping us
and building our security. Once we achieve the level of getting our
security capable of facing challenges and threats, then of course
the Iraqis will take their own destiny into their own hands, and
this is where we need a lot of help and a lot of assistance now
from friendly nations, such as the United Kingdom as well as the
United Nations' help.
QUESTION:
(Interpretation inaudible.)
MR ALLAWI:
(Interpretation inaudible)
QUESTION:
Prime Minister, yesterday you were at Leeds Castle trying to
resolve a terrorist war which has lasted 20 - 30 years. What can
you say to the British people, the commitment that you have now
given to Iraq, do you expect British troops to be there in 5 years,
10 years, in 20 years time will your successor be in here talking
about it? Effectively we are now in this, how long is it going to
last and what is it going to involve?
PRIME MINISTER:
Incidentally, just to inform the British journalists, the previous
question was about terrorism and the support of other countries and
the Prime Minister was simply explaining how important it was to
see this as a battle against global terrorism.
I think it is possible to get quite an exaggerated view of all
this, in the sense that the issue to do with Northern Ireland is an
issue obviously that is to do with our own country, it is part of
the United Kingdom, so it is hardly surprising, you might argue
that we have not been involved in this battle for 30 years, more
like 300 and there are people in Northern Ireland who would go back
even further. I don't think it is that situation at all, and the
key to this is obviously, and it is perhaps important to say this
to an Arab audience as well, the British and American forces do not
want to stay, and we do not want them to stay, and the Iraqi
government do not want them to stay a moment longer than is
necessary, and they are necessary at the moment because the Iraqi
force capability has not yet been established. But as that
establishes itself, so we are able to retire from the situation,
because in the end Iraq is a sovereign country. We only are there
with the consent of the Iraqi government, and as that capability in
Iraq arises so then we can withdraw. And I think some of these
timeframes are just absurdly exaggerated actually that people talk
about. On the other hand, what I think is foolish and dangerous for
us to say here is a date by which it is going to happen. It is
determined by the job being done. But this is a situation in which
I think over the coming months it will become very clear that this
insurgency and terrorism isn't going to win, it is not that they
can't do tremendous damage, if you have got people who are prepared
to go and blow themselves up and kill utterly innocent people,
people queuing to join the police, aid workers trying to make the
country better, Ministers trying to do their best to help build a
new Iraq, if you have got people who are prepared to do this, well
they can carry on doing it, but they will realise at some point
they are not going to win. We are not going to desert Iraq, the
international community shouldn't, and in any event the Iraqi
people in the end, they want to have a different future. They don't
want a choice, and why should people have a choice, in the Middle
East like anywhere else, why should they have a choice between a
brutal dictatorship and some type of extremist fanatical
government? Why shouldn't they have the same choice that everyone
else has, which is for the people to decide the government. And I
think you will find that there is a great deal more strength in
this commitment to liberty and democracy than people think, and the
one thing that people need to know in Iraq is that we are not going
to desert them in this, we will stay till the job is done, but that
job increasingly in security terms, in armed force terms, will be
done by the Iraqis themselves. And Iraq is potentially of course an
immensely powerful nation in the whole region. Iraq is rich in its
own resources, the Iraqi people, before you had millions of them
going into exile, the Iraqi people are a people of enormous
capability and intelligence, all they need is the ability, or the
capability to let their intelligence and their strength come
through, and that is what we will do. So when people talk about it
is 10, 15, 20 years, I don't think it is of that order at all, but
what I do think is that it is very important that people realise
that the reason we are not setting some arbitrary date now, is that
we want everybody inside Iraq, and outside, to know they are not
going to win, they can carry on killing innocent people, but they
aren't going to win, they are going to be defeated in the end.
MR ALLAWI:
January next I think is going to be a major blow to terrorists and
insurgents. Once we go through the democratic process, once we
achieve progress towards democracy, the terrorists will be
defeated. Definitely the armies who have helped Iraq and are
helping Iraq now, the friendly nations, including that of the
United Kingdom, are not in Iraq to stay. This is our own choice, we
asked the United Nations Security Council for the multinational
force to help us develop our capabilities, and this is what is
being done, and also to build our democracy in Iraq, and this is
where hopefully once we achieve the elections next year, and once
we achieve building up our own security, then we don't need the
multinational force to stay in Iraq.
Source: 10 Downing Street website, http://www.number-10.gov.uk.
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